Why are Maryland and Delaware in "Southern States" and why is Arkansas considered "Midwest"? (2024)

JD Borgeson · Aug 1, 2018 · Little Rock, AR · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 2,064

Is there a specific reason? can't figure this out. Arkansas is almost exclusively that familiar southern sandstone that can be found all around the southeast. The Midwest thread can keep Texas, but I feel like Arkansas should be included in the "Southern States" forum.

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Chalk in the Wind · Aug 1, 2018 · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 3

Maryland is below the Mason-Dixon line, and Delaware is adjacent to MD though technically above the line, but I agree that just about no one thinks of them as Southern states.

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Dan Knisell · Aug 1, 2018 · MA · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 6,367

Maryland is south of the Mason Dixon Line. I guess Delaware just gets lumped in with Maryland. As for Arkansas I couldn't say. Not quite Midwest and not quite southeastern.

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MojoMonkey · Aug 1, 2018 · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 66

Per the US Census divisions, Arkansas is South, as are MD and DE. www2.census.gov/geo/pdfs/ma…

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Bill Kirby · Aug 1, 2018 · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

Because I said so.. no wait that’s not..

If you talk to people from Massachusetts they tell you you’re a southerner. If you’re in North Carolina they tell you you’re a Yankee. We need a Mid Atlantic section!

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JD Borgeson · Aug 1, 2018 · Little Rock, AR · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 2,064

Just reviewing the Mason-Dixon line, it seems there's not a completely clear consensus. the actual line is just the border of Maryland and Pennsylvania, and the extension seems to be inconsistent among the sources I'm seeing. some are saying Delaware is included in the south, some aren't. some are including Missouri in the south, some not at all. One doesn't include Maryland or Delaware in the south. I don't know enough about the civil war, but anyway: maybe we should be taking more climbing related things into consideration when classifying areas. How's the climbing in Maryland? does it compare more to the north or the south?

But if you go that route, then would you say North Carolina is more like the northern states, and West Virginia is more like the southern states? I haven't spent enough time in those areas to really give much input.

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Luke Andraka · Aug 1, 2018 · Crownsville, MD · Joined Aug 2017 · Points: 15

+1 for midatlantic section. Maybe it would add too much confusion though

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David K · Aug 1, 2018 · The Road, Sometimes Chattan… · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 423

Originally, the Mason Dixon line is the line between Maryland and Pennsylvania, and the line between Maryland and Delaware. So while Maryland is south (and west) of the Mason Dixon line, Delaware is east of the Mason Dixon line (not really north or south). Source.

However, during the first half of the 19th century, people began to refer to the Mason-Dixon line as the border between slave states and free states. While this is technically incorrect, as Delaware was above" the Mason-Dixon line, it's clear they meant to include Delaware as being below the Mason-Dixon line because Delaware was a slave state. A more accurate term might have been the Missouri Compromise line. "The south" during this time referred to slave states, so there's some historical precedent for referring to both Delaware and Maryland as part of the south.

Having been to all the states in question and a good number of states in the south, I tend to agree that Delaware and Maryland are more urbanized and tend to be more like the Mid-Atlantic states (Pennsylvania/New Jersey/New York) culturally. Rock-wise, there's not much rock to speak of in Delaware, and Maryland is pretty varied, so it would be difficult group either with an area that has similar rock. I'll add that my original home state, Pennsylvania, has a lot of sandstone which is more similar to Southern sandstone than to the quartz conglomerate of the Gunks, the granite of the Dacks/Cannon/Whitehorse, or the schist of Rumney. If we're grouping by rock type, things would get pretty weird.

But who cares? They're just arbitrary divisions.

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JD Borgeson · Aug 1, 2018 · Little Rock, AR · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 2,064

David Kerkeslager wrote: Originally, the Mason Dixon line is the line between Maryland and Pennsylvania, and the line between Maryland and Delaware. So while Maryland is south (and west) of the Mason Dixon line, Delaware is east of the Mason Dixon line (not really north or south). Source.
However, during the first half of the 19th century, people began to refer to the Mason-Dixon line as the border between slave states and free states. While this is technically incorrect, as Delaware was above" the Mason-Dixon line, it's clear they meant to include Delaware as being below the Mason-Dixon line because Delaware was a slave state. A more accurate term might have been the Missouri Compromise line. "The south" during this time referred to slave states, so there's some historical precedent for referring to both Delaware and Maryland as part of the south.
Having been to all the states in question and a good number of states in the south, I tend to agree that Delaware and Maryland are more urbanized and tend to be more like the Mid-Atlantic states (Pennsylvania/New Jersey/New York) culturally. Rock-wise, there's not much rock to speak of in Delaware, and Maryland is pretty varied, so it would be difficult group either with an area that has similar rock. I'll add that my original home state, Pennsylvania, has a lot of sandstone which is more similar to Southern sandstone than to the quartz conglomerate of the Gunks, the granite of the Dacks/Cannon/Whitehorse, or the schist of Rumney. If we're grouping by rock type, things would get pretty weird.
But who cares? They're just arbitrary divisions.

Thanks! it is arbitrary, yes. I'm not really interested in trying to section off climbing zones for any other purpose than for than the forums to make more sense on here. otherwise, I agree, who cares.

To Jake: Yeah, I'm beginning to see some value in having a Mid-Atlantic section; the way you have describedit makes sense to me.

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Barry M · Aug 1, 2018 · WV · Joined Nov 2017 · Points: 0

Jake Jones wrote:
IMO, Mid-atlantic would be PA, MD, DE, VA, WVA. Anything north of that is Northeastern- NJ, NY, MA, NH, CT, RI, VT, ME. Anything south/southwest including NC, SC, GA, TN, AL and AK would be "southern states". If one were so inclined to redraw the arbitrary divisions of what is currently there.

WV.....just saying why do people go to some three letter bullsh*t when abbreviating West Virginia. Every other abbreviation you used was the correct two letter abbreviation but when you got to West Virginia you fell in the rabbit hole. I'll forgive you, even the idiotic editors of newspapers here use WVA.

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Jonathan Lambert · Sep 3, 2018 · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 0

There would probably be a bit more forum traffic from that region if there was a Mid-Atlantic section. Makes it a bit rough to discuss local things when it's going to get lost amongst discussions irrelevant to our local area.

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ikmortu · Sep 3, 2018 · People's Republic of Chicago · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 5

Jake Jones wrote:
IMO, Mid-atlantic would be PA, MD, DE, VA, WVA. Anything north of that is Northeastern- NJ, NY, MA, NH, CT, RI, VT, ME. Anything south/southwest including NC, SC, GA, TN, AL and AK would be "southern states". If one were so inclined to redraw the arbitrary divisions of what is currently there.

Probably doesn’t make much sense to put AK in “Southern States” because it’s so far North; it might be better to replace it with AR.

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Joseph DeGaetano · Sep 27, 2018 · Fayetteville, WV but curren… · Joined May 2008 · Points: 560

Semantics and perspective young fella. Are you a hillbilly hick or are ya a city slicker slurbanite? One man's southern is another man's northener.

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Josh Gates · Sep 28, 2018 · Wilmington, DE · Joined Mar 2017 · Points: 4

Some observations:
1. Delaware and MD weren't _anywhere_ until a few months ago, so South is a step up.
2. There are more posts in this thread than outdoor lines in DE.

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curt86iroc · Sep 28, 2018 · Lakewood, CO · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 274

Josh Gates wrote:
2. There are more posts in this thread than outdoor lines in DE.

after reading this i immediately pictured the famous DE scene from wayne's world...

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Josh Gates · Sep 28, 2018 · Wilmington, DE · Joined Mar 2017 · Points: 4

curt86iroc wrote:
after reading this i immediately pictured the famous DE scene from wayne's world...

That's every day of my life

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Jonathan Lambert · Sep 28, 2018 · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 0

But when was the last time anyone from Georgia, Tennessee, or the Carolinas regularly climbed in WVa, Virginia, or Pennsylvania? Or vice versa?

The Mid-Atlantic should have its own section.

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Sean Cobourn · Oct 1, 2018 · Gramling, SC · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 3,562

Kentucky is one state away from Canada. How on earth is that a southern state ?

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McHull · Oct 2, 2018 · Catoctin Mt · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 260

Jonathan Lambert wrote: There would probably be a bit more forum traffic from that region if there was a Mid-Atlantic section. Makes it a bit rough to discuss local things when it's going to get lost amongst discussions irrelevant to our local area.

^^This^^

I’ll second or third a Mid-Atlantic forum.
And I’ll even put my post wheremy mouth is and volunteer as a Mod.
Can’t be that hard, right??

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Joel H · Oct 18, 2018 · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2018 · Points: 0

Maryland and Delaware are in the Southern Region because it was divided by someone who probably doesn't live in them.

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Blake Lehmans · Oct 18, 2018 · Charlotte, NC · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 303

Jonathan Lambert wrote: But when was the last time anyone from Georgia, Tennessee, or the Carolinas regularly climbed in WVa, Virginia, or Pennsylvania? Or vice versa?
The Mid-Atlantic should have its own section.

I travel from NC to WV almost weekly. The New River Gorge has become the local crag for most of my friends.

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Why are Maryland and Delaware in "Southern States" and why is Arkansas considered "Midwest"? (2024)

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Why are Delaware and Maryland considered southern states? ›

Historically, the South was defined as all states south of the 18th-century Mason–Dixon line, the Ohio River, and 36°30′ parallel.

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Is Arkansas considered Midwest or South? ›

Reality check: The U.S. Census calls Arkansas the South and distinguishes our Missouri neighbors to the north as the Midwest. About 95% of their residents agree.

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Why is Arkansas considered the south? ›

In 1861, Arkansas seceded from the United States and joined the Confederate States of America during the American Civil War.

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Was Maryland a southern state? ›

During the American Civil War (1861–1865), Maryland, a slave state, was one of the border states, straddling the South and North. Despite some popular support for the cause of the Confederate States of America, Maryland did not secede during the Civil War.

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What region is Delaware and Maryland? ›

STR groups the U.S. into nine regions: New England (Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island) Middle Atlantic (New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey) South Atlantic (Maryland, Delaware, West Virginia, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida)

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Were Maryland and Delaware Confederate states? ›

West Virginia

Several of these states, such as Maryland and Delaware, remained loyal to the Union, meaning they actively supported President Lincoln and contributed soldiers and supplies to the war effort. On the other hand, Kentucky tried to remain neutral in the war, although they eventually became pro-Union.

Why is it called Midwest? ›

Why is it called the Midwest? It is called the Midwest because of the location of those states in the 1800s before the U.S. expanded to the Pacific Coast. These states were part of the Northwest Ordinance. This term became obsolete once the U.S. expanded westward, resulting in these states becoming the Midwest.

What state is considered Midwest? ›

The Midwest, as defined by the federal government, comprises the states of Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota, and Wisconsin.

What do you call someone from Arkansas? ›

Although “Arkansan” has become the standard usage, some of the state's best-known writers have argued in favor of “Arkansawyer.” To confuse the issue further, another term, Arkansians, was used even earlier than either Arkansawyer or Arkansan.

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What is the stereotype of Arkansas? ›

Reputation of Arkansas. The stereotype, which is frequently characterized by a lazy, rural, poor, banjo-playing, racist, cousin-marrying hick is commonly applied to Arkansas and its residents.

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Is Arkansas a white or black state? ›

70.2% White American. 15.1% Black or African American. 0.9% American Indian and Alaska Native. 1.7% Asian American.

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What states are considered the Dirty South? ›

“Dirty South” is an expression that endearingly refers to the southern part of the United States—from Virginia to Florida, Texas, and the states in between—whose Black traditions and artistic expressions have shaped the culture of the region and the nation.

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Is Delaware a southern state? ›

Delaware is considered part of the Southern United States by the U.S. Census Bureau, but the state's geography, culture, and history are a hybrid of the Mid-Atlantic and Northeastern regions of the country.

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Is Maryland still southern? ›

We are usually considered the northeast along w/ the clump of NE “blue states”, but Maryland is south of the Mason-Dixon line, so we are technically southern too. I also use “Mid-Atlantic”, which I feel is better as we & Delaware are kind of in the center of the east coast. The region is also referred to as Delmarva.

Is Delaware below the Mason-Dixon line? ›

While the border state of Maryland is definitively below the line, it never left the Union during the Civil War, although slavery remained legal until 1864. Similarly, Delaware was a border state with legal slavery, but it is east of the Mason-Dixon line.

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Is Delaware part of the Southern colonies? ›

The Southern colonies were Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia. They were located south of both the New England colonies (New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Connecticut) and the Middle colonies (New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, and Delaware).

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Was Maryland known as a southern colony? ›

The Southern Colonies within British America consisted of the Province of Maryland, the Colony of Virginia, the Province of Carolina (in 1712 split into North and South Carolina), and the Province of Georgia.

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Is Delaware north or south of Maryland? ›

Delaware is bounded to the north by Pennsylvania; to the east by the Delaware River, Delaware Bay, New Jersey and the Atlantic Ocean; and to the west and south by Maryland.

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Is Maryland still Southern? ›